Continuing our Low pay/no pay week, which today focuses on internships, the Old Vic’s John Richardson defends the theatre’s unpaid positions
The issue of low pay, or indeed no pay, is an incredibly important one. We applaud The Stage for shining a light on the practice of internships in the theatre world and across the board of the creative industries. Martin Bright’s piece is one side of the debate surrounding this issue. We felt it was important to give our perspective.
We are very proud of our internship programme at the Old Vic. We believe that our scheme provides a rewarding opportunity for volunteers from all walks of life to gain hands-on experience in a theatre environment. Our internships contribute to participants’ understanding of the theatre industry, and provide the opportunity to meet creatively-minded peers, thus also benefiting the wider arts community.
When BECTU recently challenged us on our internship scheme, we replied immediately. We receive no public funding and, as a charitable trust, we are committed to respecting our legal obligations, as well as creating volunteering opportunities for those who want to work in the arts. When we obtained legal advice last year on national minimum wage legislation, the advice we received approved our current practices. We continue to assess our procedures and seek regular legal assurances to ensure that our programme fully complies with current legislation.
Bright writes that the Old Vic pointed out that it “is a charitable trust, as if it is not at the same time a money-making operation”. He may not know that any money the theatre company makes is ploughed back into the trust, which supports all our education and community work, our mentoring of young creative talent and the upkeep of our 200-year-old building. And he doesn’t mention that the Old Vic receives no public subsidy, whereas all but one of the institutions he cites are subsidised to the tune of £60 million between them.
We are pleased with the success that our interns have subsequently had in the theatre, but that is only one strand of our work. Through our Old Vic New Voices programme and the volunteer scheme at the Old Vic Tunnels, we continue to reach a wide range of people, including many from under- privileged backgrounds, and we are enormously proud of what we have been able to achieve without subsidy.
John Richardson is producer at the Old Vic
- The Low pay/no pay special issue of The Stage is on sale now.
Hi Old Vic mouthpiece John Richardson.
You naughty naughty man! SO economical with the truth. You give the impression that you have never had even a penny of Arts Council money! But that's a bit of a porkie pie, isn't it?
You received £350000 of taxpayer ACE 'sustain award' money to cover the period 2009-11 didn't you? Shame on you for attempting to deceive people.
Why don't you want to talk about that award? Most companies would make big news of that. Why hide the fact?
Is it because you received £350k at the same time you began your sweatshop Tunnels program and began engaging 40 unpaid interns a year? And at the same time you became perhaps the largest employer of unpaid actors in the UK?
Perhaps the Old Vic is ashamed. Is it the shame? Or perhaps you are experiencing fear. Will some of your audiences stop coming if they knew what you were up to? Or maybe your concern that the trusts and corporate sponsors that sustain you may decide to put the money into a more deserving and honest charity?
After all, what is your charity's mission? “To ensure the long term future for the theatre at the highest artistic level within London and beyond.”
So how does this fit with not paying the workers? How can the theatre have a long term future at the 'highest level' if the workers and artists in it are not being paid? Or are the artists and workers to spend 'opportunities' instead of money to survive? Can I pay my rent in opportunities? Will British Gas accept volunteering instead of money towards my bill? I don't think so.
And what about your latest practice, the one Equity has approached you about?
The Old Vic Tunnels are actively using their volunteers and interns to help create, set up, rig and produce for external companies (not charities) who ought themselves to be using their own paid workforce or the venue’s paid employees.
And maybe this is loophole-legal, but does this make it right? You are using the Old Vic name which was inherited from your betters who were artists first, to sell young actors and workers down the river. You are undermining the ticket prices all along the South Bank and elsewhere in London with your Tunnels project. You are pimping for limited companies to help them find professional actors and technicians to work for free when they have a legal right to be paid.
Your contribution to this blog has been a deceptive and mendacious defence of your own dodgy practice. There is no exploration of the moral or ethical issues at stake. Perhaps you are not qualified to speak in those terms.
You claim that you are very proud of your internship program? Perhaps you could be more proud of it if you could say: "we are proud of the fact that all of our interns were paid the London Living Wage" You certainly would do favours for widening participation if you could have interns from all backgrounds, not just those who can afford to work for free.
Fortunately not all theatres follow your example of exploitation, Bill Kenwright Ltd pays all of his staff. Even the interns. And they have always done so. How can you call yourself a charity when Limited Companies treat their workers better.
Your practices are the death of theatre as an honest job.
http://actorsminimumwage.wordpress.com/tag/old-vic/
Hi Old Vic mouthpiece John Richardson.
You naughty naughty man! SO economical with the truth. You give the impression that you have never had even a penny of Arts Council money! But that's a bit of a porkie pie, isn't it?
You received £350000 of taxpayer ACE 'sustain award' money to cover the period 2009-11 didn't you? Shame on you for attempting to deceive people.
Why don't you want to talk about that award? Most companies would make big news of that. Why hide the fact?
Is it because you received £350k at the same time you began your sweatshop Tunnels program and began engaging 40 unpaid interns a year? And at the same time you became perhaps the largest employer of unpaid actors in the UK?
Perhaps the Old Vic is ashamed. Is it the shame? Or perhaps you are experiencing fear. Will some of your audiences stop coming if they knew what you were up to? Or maybe your concern that the trusts and corporate sponsors that sustain you may decide to put the money into a more deserving and honest charity?
After all, what is your charity's mission? “To ensure the long term future for the theatre at the highest artistic level within London and beyond.”
So how does this fit with not paying the workers? How can the theatre have a long term future at the 'highest level' if the workers and artists in it are not being paid? Or are the artists and workers to spend 'opportunities' instead of money to survive? Can I pay my rent in opportunities? Will British Gas accept volunteering instead of money towards my bill? I don't think so.
And what about your latest practice, the one Equity has approached you about?
The Old Vic Tunnels are actively using their volunteers and interns to help create, set up, rig and produce for external companies (not charities) who ought themselves to be using their own paid workforce or the venue’s paid employees.
And maybe this is loophole-legal, but does this make it right? You are using the Old Vic name which was inherited from your betters who were artists first, to sell young actors and workers down the river. You are undermining the ticket prices all along the South Bank and elsewhere in London with your Tunnels project. You are pimping for limited companies to help them find professional actors and technicians to work for free when they have a legal right to be paid.
Your contribution to this blog has been a deceptive and mendacious defence of your own dodgy practice. There is no exploration of the moral or ethical issues at stake. Perhaps you are not qualified to speak in those terms.
You claim that you are very proud of your internship program? Perhaps you could be more proud of it if you could say: "we are proud of the fact that all of our interns were paid the London Living Wage" You certainly would do favours for widening participation if you could have interns from all backgrounds, not just those who can afford to work for free.
Fortunately not all theatres follow your example of exploitation, Bill Kenwright Ltd pays all of his staff. Even the interns. And they have always done so. How can you call yourself a charity when Limited Companies treat their workers better.
Your practices are the death of theatre as an honest job.
http://actorsminimumwage.wordpress.com/tag/old-vic/
Annie Yactor, you clearly have a massive chip on your shoulder about this, but I don't think this is the place for such subjective and frankly uninformed opinions. This debate is not going to get resolved by people using highly rhetorical but rather empty challenges and preposterous statements, or by singling out particular institutions when so many are at fault. It's a shame you don't discuss your points in a more reasoned tone as they might be more persuasive, and I'd be interested to know where you have got your 'facts' from.
The comments filter does not allow all the hyperlinks required to substantiate the facts. So the full reposting with all the links can be found here: http://actorsminimumwage.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/779/
Hi Georgie.
Au contraire, mon frere!
You will find that this is factual. Hard to believe, I know... but that just makes it more infuriating!
To see the document listing the 'sustain' award for Ms. Old Vic you can visit: The Arts Council site.
The purpose of the funding according to the ACE. "Our funding will help to support the artistic programme at the Old Vic at a time when recessionary pressures have impacted income from corporate sponsorship."
If you follow this link you can visit an article where we look at the OLD VIC's own report to the Charities Commission. AMW has an excellent factual article about this.
There are lots of other interesting things you can learn about the Old Vic. They spent more than £500k on their education program but little of it went to the actors working in the Tunnels. Fascinating to learn the stated purpose of the Tunnels program
“Attract a new audience to the Old Vic Tunnels space play underneath Waterloo – in collaboration with Punchdrunk, leading audiences to the Old Vic”
So the Old Vic Tunnels exploits unpaid actors to lead audiences to their mainstage. All this in aid of their overall aims:
“To ensure the long term future for the theatre at the highest artistic level within London and beyond.”
About a year ago the Arts Council 'Arts jobs' website very responsibly has pulled the Old Vic's adverts for unpaid actors and stage management (follow this link) yet still posted their own adverts.
And yes, Annie is a little pissed off with the OLD VIC. But so are a lot of other artists and workers. After a year of campaigning the OV continues to fob everyone off and ignore the moral questions of what they do. EQUITY and BECTU have both called around the place and they have made some headway. But the Old Vic Tunnels still trawl for professional actors using their mailing lists.
The Old Vic has attempted to bully Actors Minimum Wage with legal posturing, which was pretty provocative. But when they were asked a few straight forward questions they have yet to answer.
The Old Vic does have some friends though. They are regarded as a model "Big Society" project by the current COn-Dem coalition. In fact Mr Spacey himself collected the Big Award.
And the real gall of this is that, § using professional and preprofessional 'volunteers' the award was given on the basis of the OV Tunnels being a 'community project.'
I did not know that dishonesty was such an important element of running a charity.
Shame on you Old Vic.
Bravo Annie! If there was a standing ovation icon here I would use it!
The Vic could do so much more good work if they could just see it, instead of thinking that a handshake from Mr Cameron will make it all better.
Come on, lead by example! Show us that you care about the artistic wellbeing of this country, in all its diversity.